Anonymous
map-marker Seymour, Indiana

Dentures don't fit after 9 1/2 months of delay and put off

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August 28, 2015 My wife had her teeth pulled Nov. 13, 2014 and had a set of temporary dentures installed. They did not from the start and each visits for the nest 6 months resulted in reline after reline and stalling.The original teeth had "buck" teeth and were promised that would be fixed in the permanent teeth That was cured after a fashion, but the teeth still don't fit. In the second last visit, Dr. An had a reline preformed and the teeth fell out of the mouth by the time he had walked to the sink. Dr. An said they would have to be remade and made and appointment to do so. At the next appointment, the tech announced that these were temporary teeth and would do a reline. I told the tech that were supposed to be the permanent teeth and she called Dr. An. Dr. An said that he was turning the case over to Dr Wu. It would two weeks before Dr. Wu would be available.Dr Wu never set up appointment after being asked for one. Whey I called the next day, I was told Dr. Wu would not be back for two weeks and left no instructions for my wife. It has now been nearly 10 months with no teeth and no hope.
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Loss:
$3000
Reason of review:
Poor customer service

Preferred solution: Deliver product or service ordered

2 comments
Guest

Like Anonymous said, dentists at this sleazy joint come and go like the clouds in the sky. No decent dentist wants to soil his resume by working there for long.

Funny how they have so many dentists with foreign names, isn't it? Think they might be importing them via H1B visas?

Here are the steps to make an EXCELLENT denture:

1. Take initial models to study them for undercuts and places that need reduction before making dentures.

2. After any needed surgery is done, make a CUSTOM TRAY for the final impressions.

3.

Take final impression in silicone, rubber base, or polyether material, and correct any small defects with impression wax.

4. Fabricate acrylic baseplates and wax rims in the lab. 5. Take a face bow transfer.

Decide on the correct vertical dimension (a critical step) and take a *** record. 6. Decide on occlusal scheme, select teeth, and have lab order them. 7.

Have lab set teeth. 8. Try the teeth in while they are still in wax. Do phonetic tests and modify if necessary.

9. Have lab finalize setup and waxup. Return for final try-in if necessary. 10 Have lab process denture, break out of molds, finish, polish, and make remount casts.

11. Insert dentures and adjust. Let them settle in for a week. 12.

Take new *** and remount settled dentures in articulator. Adjust as needed and repolish. All this takes a MINIMUM of 6 visits, and usually more. It is very demanding work.

Did your A$pen dentist do all this the first time? Chances are a million to one he did not. Go to a crumby chain corporate clinic in hopes of getting cheap dentures, and you see what you get.

Making dentures that fit is no easy task. Perhaps you understand now, and will go to a competent dentist who owns his practice, instead of a sleazy investor-owned clip joint.

Guest

Both those dentist have left town and aspen in the dust. They will hire a new 20's something dentist to try to clean up the mess. It's what aspen calls "getting a new bambi", aka new sucker dentist.

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Soliana Nnt
map-marker Washington, Missouri

Aspen Dental - Dental Implants Review from Washington, Missouri

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I have nothing but problems with my teeth after I let aspen dental have a hold of them. I put a lot of faith and have been told nothing about bad things about them. At the time all seemed good but after having to get a new crown on another tooth ...I now have another abscess on the other tooth they worked on. I have never had this much trouble and now I am looking at legal action .
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Reason of review:
Bad quality
1 comment
Guest

The question is, what did you expect from a corporate dental chain that uses television to advertise? Ethical business practices?

State-of-the-art treatment?

The fact is nobody the most desperate and inexperienced dentists will work in these places. And they quit the minute they find better jobs.

Nothing that patients say happened to them in these clinics surprise me. Because a long time ago, I worked in one myself. But the chain clinics of the 1980s were a walk in the park compared to the Wall Street owned clinics of today.

Hedge fund investors bring a whole new meaning to the phrase, "criminal enterprise."

Cut your losses.

Find an honest, competent dentist who owns his own practice. You won't find them in corporate clinics, and won't see them in TV ads.

Tyvon Yoa

Incomplete teeth after 9 Months

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I had teeth pulled and had upper partial made which was not right. Repaired, repaired and repaired, and still not right. They made second partial and it still was not right. So I decided to try a bridge. After 3 bridges and still not right. When they glue the bridge it comes loose after about 6-8 hours, then I am left with using fixodent at about 2 times a day. It takes 3 weeks to get the bridges. I have been using fixodent for about 3 months. What else is left since I have 3 stubs in my mouth waiting for a correct bridge.
View full review
Loss:
$3800
Cons:
  • Inadequate dental services
Reason of review:
Poor customer service

Preferred solution: Price reduction

1 comment
Guest

Good luck making a bridge work with only three teeth left. It won't last any time at all.

I could not make it work with the fine labs I use. How can A$pen make it work with cheap crumby lab work from China?

Time to see what sort of money you can get back and change dentists. It should be now that this clip joint will never be able to to the treatment correctly. Trouble is, it will take you months and months and months to get a refund, if you ever are able to get it at all.

That means paying a decent dentist to do it right with even more money.

Sorry it happened to you, buddy. Don't know why you chose a cheesy investor-owned chain clinic like this to start with, but obviously it was a big mistake for you, as it is for almost everyone else.

Anonymous
map-marker Williston, Vermont

bottom partial falls out all the time..

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the first meetings and removal of my teeth was very good. the top plate fits great and stays put.the bottom is a partial.it has been relined several times.it just wont stay put.i glue the almost before every meal.several times i almost choked on them. they just say the new ones will be better. but id like to be able to eat now,atleast some foods i was used to.choking on your teeth in a restraunt is not very pleasing to anyone .i have used a lot of adhesive,to no use.seems they could do something..several friends have had the same results..not a good recomendation.. kevin marble...
View full review
Reason of review:
Bad quality

Preferred solution: Let the company propose a solution

2 comments
Guest

Don't pay their flexicrap partials either, they terrible.

Guest

You made a BIG mistake extracting all these teeth. Temporary partials never are that stable.

You need to let your ridges heal AT LEAST 6 months before constructing your final partials.

Constructing partials takes a lot of design work, perfect impressions, and quality lab support. You will never get any of these from a sleazy, investor-owned corporate clinic like A$pen, but of course, you will never believe me. You will have to learn the hard way.

A decent partial costs at least $1500.

I expect to read a complaint in a few months saying your final partial didn't fit good either, and you can't get your money back from A$pen. Feel free to prove me wrong!

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Kollins Tvw

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Verified Reviewer
| map-marker Sun City Center, Florida

Wanted 60% down when work would not begin for 4 weeks

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Initial meeting was good the cleaning, extraction of front tooth Pricing seemed a little excessive because of all the operations they mandate you do But when I needed a crown they would not even make an appointment unless I put down 60%. They explained that the lab that makes the crown had to be paid up front.(Says something about their credit) BUT I needed a tooth buildup and had to wait for at least three weeks before they were going to take the impression and send out to the lab. Then I though I had to put up the 60% but they wanted to get the money before they would even make a appointment. The kept saying that it was company policy I noted it was not my policy be to pay when services are started. Arrogant and inflexible, I would not recommend them
View full review
Pros:
  • Staff
Cons:
  • Office manager
Reason of review:
Pricing issue

Preferred solution: Let the company propose a solution

3 comments
Guest

I have taken my Mom to their office (her choice, most definitely not mine), and have seen and listened to their patter. Remember that all dental offices aren't like Aspen. Find another, not a large chain, but a local dentist who has been there awhile.

Guest

same here, wanted credit card money before.

Guest

It is a lie that labs must be paid before crowns are even started. They pay their lab bill monthly like everyone else.

By the way, much of their substandard lab work is done in China.

Most dentist request a large portion of the crown fee WHEN THE IMPRESSION IS TAKEN, but not before. If patients don't pay any money up front, we can fabricate crowns, and patients might decide not to return. But asking for a deposit to make the appointment is ridiculous.

One of this shyster chain's trick is to try to get as much money up front, then make it difficult to impossible to get an appointment. If you get disgusted and want your money back, guess what?

It is almost impossible to get a refund.

The NY attorney general last month slammed A$pen for this very practice. When patients had refunds coming to them, he found these crooks would add miscellaneous charges to gradually eat up the patient credit so a refund would never be necessary!

These are but a few of the tricks this investor-owned viper's nest pays.

You would do much, much better finding a regular dentist in his own practice to treat you. Skip the corporate film-flam outfits like A$pen.

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Russell Omp
map-marker Pleasant Hills, Pennsylvania

Absolutely worst experience...would not recommend them to my WORST enemy!!!

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Long story. We were lied to on multiple occasions, charged for procedures that were never done (ended up getting that money back.) Treated like ***. In the three years we have dealt with Aspen there has been three different District Managers (high turnover says something about the way the company is run.) We could not get anyone to return calls, we went through their customer satisfaction team-got results the first time, now NOBODY will deal with us! My husband has been to the office countless times for repairs to his dentures and he actually had to get them remade due to poor craftsmanship. They did not remake them properly and they still do not fit (it is visibly obvious when you hold them up next to his old broken ones that did fit.) We just received a letter today saying that they no longer want to deal with us! We will be contacting legal counsel. I wish somebody would have wrote this review before this nightmare began. I would have stayed far far away!
View full review
Loss:
$3700
Pros:
  • Payment options
Cons:
  • Customer service
  • Being lied to on multiple occasions
  • Craftsmanship
Reason of review:
Damaged or defective

Preferred solution: Full refund

2 comments
Guest

Nobody wants to work in this cr@p hole called aspen.

Guest

It's not like they're aren't any bad reviews about Aspen. It is just that you probably fell for the lying TV commercials like everyone else.

No dental office that has to advertise on TV is any good.

Bet you didn't know that this shyster outfit is owned by Wall Street investors, and not licensed dentists, did you? The investors use executives to beat dentists and hygienists into submission to bill more revenues. How they do it is not important.

Not refunding credit balances was one of the beefs of the Massachusetts attorney general when he slammed them last December and made them refund $990,000 to Mass.

patients.

Don't count on lawyers being able to help you much A$pen has more legal firepower than you can ever afford.

You made a terrible choice going to a corporate dental chain instead of a regular dentist who owns his own practice. Don't think Great Expressions, Coast, Affordable Dentures, Western, or any of the other sleazy corporate chains will be different.

We dentists are trying to get the corporate sleazebags out of illegally owning practices, but it is hard to do with so much corporate cash buying off state legislators.

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Ebba Khi
map-marker Fort Dodge, Iowa

Aspen Dental Wisdom Teeth Extraction Review from Fort Dodge, Iowa

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Aspen Dental Wisdom Teeth Extraction Review from Fort Dodge, Iowa
Aspen Dental Wisdom Teeth Extraction Review from Fort Dodge, Iowa - Image 2
Aspen Dental Wisdom Teeth Extraction Review from Fort Dodge, Iowa - Image 3
Aspen Dental Wisdom Teeth Extraction Review from Fort Dodge, Iowa - Image 4
Aspen Dental Wisdom Teeth Extraction Review from Fort Dodge, Iowa - Image 5
Woke up twice during wisdom (4) extraction. Never once did the oral surgeon stop/pause until I was out again. I was actually told to be quiet; apparently I was yelling. I could hear myself, no one was responding, so I didn't know THEY could hear me. Now I'm being sent another bill because they had to use more anesthesia (via IV) than planned. I was told by a staff member that one assistants sole job is to stare at the monitor to make sure waking up doesn't happen during surgery. She told me her horror story during a surgical procedure... Told me to relax and rest easy. Keep in mind, this all happened AFTER being rescheduled and moved around appointment times 4 times previous to the surgery. 4, then 2. 3... Then 2. Back to 3. Oops, they meant 4.) Before heading back to the operating room, I was told the surgeon still planned on being done and out of the office by 6:00. (I didn't go back to the room until 4:45.) So, is that why when I came to, twice, he didn't stop working for a minute to reassure me and let me fall back under anesthesia?
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Reason of review:
Bad quality
18 comments
Keagen Vnx

Got an upper partial & some dental work to the top & bottom. Temp & permanent partials were fine.

Problem was w/the service. Being my first partial, they gave me a care package, but no verbal or written care instructions? I had to ask. Even then, the tech had to ask someone.

Same tech when doing the 2nd mold for the permanent set, did it w/the temp set still in. I asked her if they had to come out first? She had to go ask again. These issues I could deal with.

When doing the cleaning & irigating, the pain level was in between a 7 & 9 the entire time. When I would barely flench or move my head when the pain level reached a 9 (a 41 year old man on the *** of tears mind you) the tech would get an attitude & tell me not to move. That's when I finally told her that I was maxed out pain wise, and that the entire procedure had hurt.

All 10 of em. Had a lot of work done.

Guest

They tried to charge me $1100 just to clean my teeth and tried to get me to buy a $125 tooth brush and and said it would take 3 or 4 appointment s to get this heavy cleaning done . I have insurance that covers preventative care so I switched to different dentist got my check up and cleaning nothing wrong with my teeth . Aspen dental never again

Guest

What purpose is your photo supposed to serve? It is normal to be swollen after hard wisdom tooth extractions!

Ebba Khi
reply icon Replying to comment of Guest-1009721

Sam- the purpose it serves is to show people that I am a human being who actually went through the procedure. That I'm not sitting here writing bogus reviews and being mean.

I have been through enough, so take your negativity elsewhere.

I ended up being transported from Waterloo to Iowa City last night; swelling was down my neck, to my collar bone- so if you would have patience and maybe sit back down on the attitude of yours, you could patiently wait for my photo updates.

Swelling IS normal. Bruising IS normal. Not being able to swallow or BREATHE is NOT normal.

Again- this has been scarring enough.

Please step back and realize adding attitude doesn't help me.

Thanks. Update: I will be going in to discuss all issues regarding my surgery with my regular dentist today.

Guest
reply icon Replying to comment of Ebba Khi

You did not say anything about not being able to breathe in your original post. All you talked about was sedation not working completely, and your appointment times being honored.

Guest
reply icon Replying to comment of Ebba Khi

Yuk! Hate this happened to you.

Guest
reply icon Replying to comment of Ebba Khi

U culd apply for a job as a chipmunk.

Ebba Khi
reply icon Replying to comment of Guest-1010310

I just need to voice! ;-)

Guest
reply icon Replying to comment of Ebba Khi

Cassie... Seasoned Dentist down there is correct, you should not have been put under, there are so many more complications that can happen.

Guest

WOW!! is all that i can say.

They treated you with no respect!!! You need to file a complaint against this horrible place.

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Anonymous
map-marker Toledo, Ohio

Staff Review

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They rescheduled my crown twice due to they changed their hours for the day. On top of getting my billing wrong every time I was in. When I brought it to their attention the front desk was rude and told me I was wrong... Until I showed them my insurance claims. The front desk girls have no clue what's going on!
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Reason of review:
Poor customer service
Anonymous
map-marker Middletown, Ohio

Aspen Dental - Dental X Ray Review from Middletown, Ohio

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I recommended Aspen Dental to a friend of mine, because he did not have insurance so I assumed they could work with him with his finances, now let me mind you I am a dental assistant at a dental office not too far from this location. but my dental office is a little bit on the expensive side so that's why I recommended Aspen Dental. Not only that but I called and made the appointment for him. the day of his appointment he fills out his paperwork they call him back to do xrays and they asked me to wait in the waiting room until they are done with the xrays and then they will call me back. well about a half hour goes by and no one calls me back, and me being a dental assistant myself I know that it does not take a half hour to take xrays so I go to the front desk and I asked if they have taken him back to his exam room yet and if so may I accompany him, they told me to wait a minute they go back to the room and then they come back to tell me that he does not want me back in the room, which was weird because he and I both had this conversation right before he went back I asked if he wanted me in the room and he said yes because I can help him understand the treatment plan better. so I was kind of upset and I left the dental office went to a store up the street and then came back because that just didn't sound right to me. So I go to the front desk and ask them are they sure he doesn't want me in the room, and they said yes it's against HIPAA violation to let someone in the room it's a specific someone request that they not be in the room. Which is understandable but I just didn't believe that he requested me not come in the room. So I asked to see the HIPAA form with the law about patience Privacy Act.once I asked for that HIPAA law I noticed they got a little on the defensive side. the girl at the front desk told me that she has to go get her manager because I asked for the form. Once the manager came out she had the form but she once again informed me that I was not allowed to go back there. Then I informed her that I was not asking to go back to accompany him I was asking for the form in that was it. Once she gave me the form I sat down in the waiting room and read the form as I was reading the forum she comes back out to the waiting room and say that it's OK for me to go back with him now. so I get up and I walked with her and I asked so what changed. She said he changed his mind, & I said sure he did. As I said that she got in my face and told me that is exactly what he said, at that time when she got in my face I felt like she was violating my personal space. She made me feel very uncomfortable and threatened. as she walked me to the room I still have the clipboard in my hand with the HIPAA form in it so I hand her the form. & I roll my eyes at her and she says to me if I'm going to misbehave then she will kick me out. now I really wanted to hear what was going on with my friend so I can help him out so I just ignored that little comment she made. after that my experience with Aspen Dental was pretty good. But since I went there and felt threatened by this office manager, my friend will not be returning he had a treatment plan of over $5,000 and I told him how important it was to get his teeth taken care of but we will take our business elsewhere because no one should feel threatened that way and not only that I had my daughter there with me. So when she got in my face and also made my daughter so uncomfortable I will never go back to Aspen Dental because of this experience that me and my daughter had to go through
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Reason of review:
Poor customer service
1 comment
Guest

Of all the people that should know what a scam this investor-owned corporate dental chain is, it should be YOU- a dental assistant! Have you not heard so many dental assistants complaining of the working conditions there?

You had not also heard how they grossly overtreat patients, and their lab work is some of the crumbiest out there?

Someone has to pay for the layers of management and TV ads, and that has to be the poor suckers who are patients.

Of course they did not want you back in the consult room with your friend. They feared you, because you were a TRUTH DETECTOR! They wanted your friend to sign on the dotted line without you being there.

Find an older dentist that has all his debts paid off.

It would help if he does most of the specialty work himself, instead of referring it out. Forgot the shopping-center corporate clown club dentists for your friend!

Daiton Wuo

This review is from a real person who provided valid contact information and hasn't been caught misusing, spamming or abusing our website. Check our FAQ

Verified Reviewer
| map-marker Monticello, Indiana

Aspen Dental - Tooth Extraction Review from Monticello, Indiana

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I went to aspen dental because the first visit was free.i had a cracked tooth that needed pulled. On the phone I was told it would cost 149 dollars. Being I had no insurance that sounded good. I showed up for an exam and x-rays then was told that my simple extraction was surgical and they bumped up the price to 250! They seem to be running the old bait and switch. Also they tell you that you need a whole bunch of other things too! Stay away from aspen dental!
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Reason of review:
Pricing issue
1 comment
Guest

No dentist can tell if and extraction will be simple or surgical until they see the x-ray. So it is silly to call around and see who can extract a tooth the cheapest, unless you show the dentist the x-ray.

All we can do is give the patient the worst-case scenario cost, and if it is simple and cheaper, they are happy.

Sometimes we give the patient a range of costs.

When you go to the hospital for surgery, can they give you a price to the penny the surgery will cost? Can they anticipate every possible complication? No?

Why then do you expect it of dentists?

I appreciate that you are trying to save money, but to call one of the sleaziest clinics out there and expect an ironclad quote for treatment without them seeing an x-ray first, is just plain dumb.

Find an honest dentist in private practice and take care of your teeth. Skip the corporate clinic clown clubs.

Anonymous
map-marker Bluff City, Tennessee

Aspen Dental - Tooth Extraction Review from Bluff City, Tennessee

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Went to aspen for regular teeth cleaning ended up per them needing deep cleaning one tooth pulled and two fillings,then sent me to financing for about 2900.00.needless to say I didn't do anything.so I asked if they could do just surface cleaning and they said no .it should be what the patient wanted.you can tell people about this place but they still go back.
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Reason of review:
Poor customer service
1 comment
Guest

Whether you needed the scaling and root planing, I cannot say without examining you. It is true that if you indeed needed this treatment because of gum disease, it would be senseless to do a polishing.

The question is really if you needed it or not. Overprescribing treatment is the favorite trick of this investor-owned corporate chain clinic. 4 quadrants of scaling and root planing plus one extraction in my office is less than half the $2900 you were quoted.

Patients go to these TV advertising gyp joints hoping to save money, but they almost never do.

Find yourself an honest and competent dentist in your community who owns his own practice. Leave the fleabag corporate practices to suckers who never listen to advice or warnings.

Anonymous
map-marker Belleview, Florida

Aspen Dental - Dental Appointment Review from Belleview, Florida

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Aspen has been giving me the run around for months. Then once I finally was able to get some answers as far as an appointment they told me I'd have to wait until Nov. We're in May. They are very rude and do not return phone calls. I left and found a dentist that would see me the next day. I don't recommend Aspen dental.
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Reason of review:
Poor customer service
2 comments
Guest

Stay away from aspen dental

Guest

Let me guess. Their interest in giving you an appointment waned after you gave them a bunch of money up front, right?

Their game is to concoct a treatment plan that includes everything but the kitchen sink, then get you to pay for it in advance.

Then they make it as hard as possible for you to obtain appointments to complete the treatment. If you give up, they keep the money. Sound familiar?

No honest business works this way.

Dentistry is always pay-as-you-go. Good luck getting any money back that is owed you by these creeps.

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Anonymous
map-marker Calhoun, Georgia

Aspen Dental - Dentures Review from Calhoun, Georgia

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Yes in Dalton Ga had all my teeth pulled with temp dentures made. The uppers were oyt if line so new ones made. With my permanants the bottoms were sitting back too far so new impressions made. The second set of bottons the teeth were angeled forward and they refused to make more. Plus i still have a piece of tooth in my gum. For $6000 id expect better care. Ill contact the main office first before i seek legal help.
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Reason of review:
Bad quality
3 comments
Guest

1. Just curious. Why did you choose the sleaziest chain out there to do all this care for you?

2. Why did you let them extract ALL your teeth? Didn't you know that partials are better than full dentures, and leaving only a couple of tooth roots under the denture makes a great deal of difference?

Good luck getting functional dentures from this corporate *** Making dentures that look and function good is a procedure that take years for dentists to get good at. Think the recent graduates working for this corporate-owned chain are experts at it? I don't think so.

Better cut your losses and find an honest, experienced dentist that owns his own practice. Forgot the crumby investor-owned clip joints, buddy. You made a big mistake! Wow, for $6000 you could have got good treatment from a lot of decent dentists.

Guest
reply icon Replying to comment of Guest-984753

If this is the only dentist that your insurance covers, you are pretty much a prisoner of them.

Guest

I'm very sorry to hear you've had trouble with your dentures. I encourage you to call our patient satisfaction team at 1-86*-***-****. They'd be happy to help you.

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Anonymous
map-marker Conyers, Georgia

Review in Dental Services category from Conyers, Georgia

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Anyone in georgia looking to get justice for this corporate ripoff? I want to get in on it. Please advise.
View full review
Reason of review:
Bad quality
3 comments
Guest

Yes I'd love to sue Aspen in Dalton. Numerous complaints here.

Guest
reply icon Replying to comment of Guest-984533

They got more legal firepower than you could ever muster. They just defeated a class action patient lawsuit in New York.

The only thing that can touch them is State Attorneys General like in Massachusetts last December.

The only thing that will touch them is if patients like you lobby state legislators to allow Boards of Dentistry to enact strict practice ownership test.

That will prevent A$pen from putting up fake owner dentist to say they own the practices, while A$pen only "manages" them. That is the scam that keep that chain and others like it operating.

Guest

I went you aspen dental in McDonough ga 1 year ago Before my wedding. They pulled out 8 or 9 teeth.

I paid for permanent but I have to take them out each night to clean them. I paid between 3,000 to 4,000 for nothing. Not even a month later win of my regular tooth broke off. And NOW I HSVE To Get 4 More Pulled Very Soon IN The Front Of month.

Now I'm going hve to come ot my pocket again.

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Anonymous
map-marker Carbondale, Illinois

Aspen Dental - Tooth Extraction Review from Carbondale, Illinois

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Set up an appointment to get my tooth pulled I go in and they are registering me this other woman walks around the corner says who's that she states my name says oh then the woman helping me asked what I was being seen for I said to get tooth pulled the other woman turned around and says well we don't have anyone in to do that to day so there is no point in seeing her today she was very rude and disrespectful and when I called to make the appointment they knew I needed that tooth pulled so I took a day off for no reason I'll never ever go back they are horrible
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Reason of review:
Poor customer service
1 comment
Guest

I don't understand. Why do you "need" a tooth pulled?

Why are you sure it cannot be saved? Why do you want to get rid of important parts of your body?

Cheesy corporate clinics like this are a waste of your time and money. It is sooooo much easier going to a regular dentist who knows what he is doing.

Why would you go to a clinic owned by private equity investors that harass dentists into overtreating patients?

Find a competent and honest dentist who owns his own practice, and try to save your teeth. Dentures are not any fun, man!

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